"There are many people who are forced to sleep on the street," they denounced in their first statement in April 2019. How does confinement affect this situation?

The situation has not changed. A year ago the hostels were full, and now they are. A year ago people were sleeping on the street and the confinement has revealed this situation: there are currently 57 people passing the confinement in the bondage centre of Lakua. In many other dwellings, very precarious situations are experienced. The most important example is the houses in Olarizu that we have next to us.

From the City Hall, social policy makers have twice come out to say that in this time of crisis responses are being given to all needs and that there are no errors. What assessment do you make?

In November we were in the municipal plenary presenting a six-point motion. The motion was voted on point by point, the first called for recognition of the fact that we are experiencing an emergency situation in the area of housing. Another said that resources should be created for people at risk of being on the street or on the street. The answer was that everything was fine, that there was no urgency or need for new resources. The PNV, the PSE and pp voted against the six points of the autonomic elections.

Especially curious is the need for services: in November it was ensured that there were no unmet needs; four months later, almost 60 people have to enter somewhere because they are on the street. They say that the resources generated, mainly from Lakua, will be maintained as long as necessary. We believe that if they are not given an option, users will move away and close when the latter is left. There's a unique opportunity: now the people being cared for are willing to try to improve their lives, you have to offer them opportunities, and then everyone will decide what they want and what they don't want.

Dozens of people live in the occupied houses of Olarizu. In May 2019, the City Hall cut off water and light. How do they value the issue?

When we were born as a group, we saw that there were a lot of people in Olarizu, under very unfavorable conditions. Many children, families... We highlight two issues. The people who previously lived on the site were removed from there with different agreements. More than 100 homes have become vacant, prepared for anyone to live. But the intention of the City Hall is speculation, it has prioritized the business. You see a clear political maneuver, the crudest face of capitalism, and the humanely unknown dramas and harsh situations that we wouldn't want to see in our city. We want a diverse city, solidary, accessible to all and not to construction companies. That's the model of the last few years, more and more people are staying on the margins.

They have denounced the City Hall's campaign of "criminalisation" against Olarizu's neighbours. Why?

There is a powerful media campaign that is developing with your fellow communication, led by El Correo. If any incident takes place in Olarizu, it is a massive war. And there are also practices that we consider to be illegal, at least allegal. Cutting light and water off a neighbor because it gets on the tip of his nose is a decision against health and against humanity. What they want is to expel the neighbours from the area.

What the Trustee and Ararteko have said about the fact that water cannot be cut off from these dwellings is very important. What is even more serious is that, in addition to housing, water has been cut off from adjacent public sources. Olarizu City Hall has a demolition budget of EUR 1 million for the municipality. One million houses can be built for people who live there and for the rest of the vitorians at risk of exclusion.

Do the City Hall see the possibility of giving up? It responds negatively to the requests of the Ararteko and the Trustee. He seems to be very fortified in his position.

When we were in the plenary we saw a very bad atmosphere, personal and political. The answers were very forceful, a very ugly political debate between them, especially between the PP and the PNV, to end by voting the same, a mere staging. It is very difficult, but with mobilisation and organisation we will achieve change. We will certainly do so.

They have publicly criticised the attitude of some neighbours in neighbouring houses. Racist messages have been disseminated against the homes of the occupied, the cutting of water and light has been applauded, police abuses have been promoted and supported, they have been spied and photographed ...

First, those who appear in the press as "legal neighbors" are not the majority of neighbors. On the other hand, they demand that water and light be cut off from the occupants for reasons of necessity, claiming that they pay and that it is therefore discriminatory. But those homes that they live are of official protection, we have paid them all, they say nothing of that “discrimination”. In any case, it seems to us a very unsupportive attitude to fight against others who live worse than them.

They have denounced that the City Hall is feeding these discriminatory attitudes of citizens with its campaign of criminalization.

It's generating fear. The presence and control of the police present here is nowhere and we believe it is within a global strategy: water cutting, police control, predicting any conflict as the end of the world... There is an important report by the municipal agency Ensanche 21, which says that the houses of Olarizu do not have serious structural problems, which with limited works would be enough to make them habitable. There are other legal options. In the housing law there is what is called masobería: it allows a person who lives in a public dwelling to carry out the refurbishment works of it, establishing this option as payment for the rent. They don't want any of that, they're clear. They want to demolish houses and do business with a builder, we believe that homes are for living.

Moving on to the social services of the City Hall. Eviction and eviction services have been remodeled during the coronavirus crisis, and a new one has been created on the fronton of Lakua for people who slept on the street.

With the center of Lakua, our assessment was initially positive, a safe space was granted to those who were in the street. But after two months, we have to overcome this primary emergency care scheme and respond differently to existing needs. We have to pay attention to people, and that cannot be done on a fronton. A plan should be developed and we see that it does not exist.

One user died in downtown Lakua. "No one should die as Yolanda died," they said from the platform, denouncing that these kinds of deaths are hidden in the institutions.

It is curious that the news of death is through a means of communication, in this case through ARGIA. How is it that there's no city note? Something serious has happened in a municipal hostel. By rejecting the morbid, there could be a gesture of solidarity. And it would be no better to say that work is going to be done so that this does not happen again. Instead, in the face of the complaint, the City Hall has been more critical of the blackmail and confusion of the facts. The hideout already exists when in November they say everything is OK. Because of ignorance or lying, we don't know, but either one would be serious. In any case, you know today that we have a serious problem in Vitoria-Gasteiz and that answers are needed. That is what we are asking for.

In the context of the COVID-19 crisis, the existing resource conditions for complying with health measures have been improved – another debate is what the previous conditions were. Opening of the Lakua... What will happen at the end of the health emergency?

We don't know. But if there is no pressure, after the crisis it will look away again.

Besides being part of the platform, you're also a social service worker. Vitoria-Gasteiz has enjoyed for many years the reputation of being a benchmark in social policies, although to some extent it continues to do so.

At one time Vitoria-Gasteiz was a reference because it was at the center of social policies. For 10 to 15 years, this reputation has not been well deserved. In the middle now there are commercial urban interests, social control...

It's also ironic. This image of sensibility towards the marginalized was taken by Vitoria-Gasteiz when the mayor, José Ángel Cadena, and the head of social policies, María Jesús Agirre. The first is the political father of Gorka Uraran, the second is his biological mother. You have often criticised the lack of sensitivity of the mayor.

And it shows you less and less each time. When she came to the mayor's office, many saw Uraran as a sensitive person, and after five years she looked like Azkuna. Metamorphosis has been great, we don't know if by power or why.

His latest initiative has been to file a complaint in the courts against the Minister of Environment, Territorial Planning and Housing, Iñaki Arriola. Why?

In April we learned that 500 homes in Vitalquiler have been sold to the Catella investment fund. These Vitalquiler dwellings are public with public money that were built on a social rental basis. We find it very serious that it is sold to an investment fund, and from a legal point of view we think that there may be crimes of prevarication, fraud and fraud. We have denounced Arriola for being the department’s top political leader. We see more and more similar speculative operations and we thought we had to take a step forward.

You created yourself as a group in April 2019, because you identified the “housing emergency”. Then comes the coronavirus crisis, and a socio-economic crisis is announced that will make the crisis of 2008 smaller. What situation do you anticipate and what challenges does an initiative like yours have in this context?

There is an opportunity to change the policy and its objectives, but we are not optimistic, we see that they want to leave here with the same recipes that have brought us here. They will continue to make policies for the powerful. We've stayed at home, and now we have to go out and fight for another model. There is no other option, the future is very dark within the neoliberal model.