It is said that Juan Mari Beltrán started playing sideways when he heard you.

That's what he says. I don’t remember because he was a boy when he saw me, I was already fifty or sixty years old. One day he went to San Sebastian and saw me play side by side. And that day he started to play side by side when he saw me, whether he liked me or not. He came to me and told me that he would have learned that too, that he wanted to learn to play side by side. Well, seeing that he would learn, I don't even know any music.

Who did you hear playing sideways?

I'm Leon, Leon Artabe. He didn't know how to play sideways, he made noise, but I saw him. And one day I said to my father, “I’d learn to play side by side too!” He replied, “Then tell Leon Artabe.” I also saw Leon Bilbao, who also played, and I asked him who had done it to the side. That my father had done it, José María Bilbao. And then what would I think... Our father used to have forest cows and forest calves, and the forest calf used to have branches. And our father told José María, “You, did you make the flanks?” and yes, he did. “For I have a calf to kill, and I will take its horn,” “Yes, bring it!” Joseph Mary. He also drew the water from the inside, the one who was an artist making the sides, and he made me side with the calf that our father had killed. I took it and went to Leon Artabena, and he told me some songs, some notes, and I went to his house to study. The farm had a block next to the entrance and said to me, “Keep beating the block by the side!” But I spent little time there playing side by side and then I started at home.

You used to train in cattle at home, too.

I started inside the house, but my mother used to say to me, “Mekaguen la puñeta, go to the square to play side by side!” And then the curtain. The cattle also like it, the cattle always satisfied with the noise. But in the end, even if I was down, the sound was going up, that I was going to grind cattle in the fence and I was sent to the forest to play side by side. Then I would leave school and go to the forest in sequence. We had forest cattle or house cattle, but we didn’t have fields, and then some of them went into the forest, and I played side by side with them. Away from home, I used to walk among the trees training, and from there nobody listened to me.

Didn't you hear it?

No, the forest is huge! And that's where I used to go and act. That's where I learned it, and I can play anything right now.

Then you'll be fine with ears...

I have ears like everyone else.

But you would have taken the pieces by listening, without solfing...

Yes, yes, by listening. I told you, I don't even know any music.

And when did you go out to the square?

At the age of twelve and thirteen I went to Urkiola to play side by side in the Sanantolinas. In the fields of the Urkiola there were huge stages, and I saw young people playing there side by side, seven to eight years old, even a little older than me, but all under fourteen years old. And others playing the tambourine. I was twelve and thirteen years old. Then in 1935 and 1936 no one from the Assembly went to Urkiola. But we went to the villages and we walked, and I remember how the bishop once came to Dima. Pussy, the bishop was coming and to welcome him we played the side and the tambourine, and the bishop gave me twelve pesetas. Twelve pesetas!

How many were then?

Imagine, a litre of wine only cost a peseta.

How much was the weekly day?

Five pesetas. And you had to go every day to win that, so there wasn't even a Sunday! Hit and smoke every day and earn five pesetas. And he gave me twelve pesetas for the band, of course, not just for me. But he gave us twelve pesetas. To drink soda or...

What did your mom and dad say when you were going to fuck each other?

Nothing, they used to agree, when we were kids we always went to parties and there were other brothers to do the housework, so I would agree and my parents would stop too.

Did you go to war all over and all over?

No later, there was no side then! Also, because of the Vascos Instruments or something like that, the Civil Guards went to Orue of Lemon in one that had been playing side-by-side. He was told that he had no side to play with or that he would be put in. So I couldn't play side by side.

How did you start again?

I went to Galdakao one day. There is a restaurant there where Father Donostia was brought to pay homage or, monk and musician. At that lunch Leon Bilbao and Txilibrin beat him sideways. For me to start, too, but I didn’t even think I was going to start. Because I hadn't hit him in so many years. Get the facts out, I wasn't beaten before the war, and I went to that food over fifty years ago. I didn't dare to play, but after lunch I did ask Leon: “Do you have a pair to sell?” Yeah, and I bought them from him and I started playing again. Start, and look! I grabbed him in sequence. And as they began to play, they began to call me in succession, and begging began for almost all the villages of the Gipuzkoa area.

The political alignment of each one would also have had an impact on how much walking...

Txilibrin was always there, he was from the PNV and the other was Leon Bilbao, a carlist. But in political events we didn’t play as much, more in pilgrimages and hello, in Basque festivals. There were singers, there were also singers. Benito Lertxundi not so much, but Laboa was often present, and so was Xabier Lete.

Did he live to beat the whistle on the side?

I don’t know how he lived in Txilibri, after retiring, of course, from the side. In addition, they went to a hotel in Deusto every week, on Saturday evenings, even on Sunday evenings, and sometimes even in barbecues. There were weddings, people eating and drinking and playing. But before, look, that was in the harbor. And I don't know how he did it, because he was walking around America and around with his neighbor.

How did Eugene differ from the other two?

I play with a lot of details, how I'm going to tell you, they're tak, and I type more ticks, ticks, ticks, and the hola comes out cleaner. Otherwise, the pieces are dark or confused. But Txilibrin had another thing: I put both lips inside to hit him by the side, Txilibrin walked the lower one out of the branch, I don’t know about the tooth or why. And he also turned his claws upside down, me and Leon Bilbao in a certain way, and Txilibrin turned away.

Have you created new pieces?

They are all new to me! But I didn't create pieces.

Have you ever thought about releasing a record?

There was no such thing in time.

Now they take them out, Beltran and, also, the boatmen. It would be a pity if the sound on Eugenio's side didn't stop at a stand.

The Beltrans pull it out, but one of them is clapping, the other is sideways, walking between two or three. They know a lot about music, it’s different. This is the only thing they are dedicated to, and for us, this was something that could be done when it was possible.

If you were to start over, would you be dedicated to it?

Oh, no, no, no. The first thing you have to do is learn music, and I don't even know a clue.

You would learn.

Of course, if I was young, but then there's no way out of it, it's only Beltran who lives there.

You have to invent your life!

Yes, he invented it! He has a museum where he will do something, in Oiartzun, then he teaches. He is dedicated to it, and there is nothing else like it. Txilibrin didn't teach anyone to do it, Leon Bilbao did, Leon taught everyone to cheat. Not the whistles. One of the Vitoria-Gasteiz people who gave me the sweets told me that he wanted to learn something with Txilibrin, but that he wouldn’t teach him keba or anything.

No one touches your children?

No, no one, either. They have no appetite.

[A daughter speaks to him]

We gave it little importance. And for us it has always been his thing, they called him, he went, sometimes with his mother, and we have not given him any importance. We could also learn, as he learned, by ear.

[Father again]

No one learns, they don’t have an affair.

Do you feel sorry for him?

No pity, there is no life there!

It would have been a help but for the day laborer, wouldn't it?

Do you have any help? We spent it though! I used to take the lady away often and then at one meal and at the other. And then he wasn't even interested, if he was going to win from there, the workshop what?

Well, you were a sidekick, too.

Yes, I made my first flanks when I was eleven or twelve. Side by side two. I gave one to a Dimako and the other to Leon Bilbao. The truth is that the horns I don’t know where I got the sides, the wood was given to me by my older brother, who was a carpenter.

So no one else was there to do the sidekicks?

Leon Bilbao was walking. But then no, no one. Now there is one in Vitoria-Gasteiz, but he also does it to his class. I started making sides again. But I used to have a problem: how to get the horns? At first one brought me from Bilbao. He drew the water from the inside, and kept them on the balcony, on the balcony outside, but they smelled the smell of Christ. And one day, “Mekaguen, the side branch takes home a horrible smell! He said to me. If you ask someone else to do me a favor!” I said, “I’ll fix it!” and started looking for new ones. The one at the Bilbao slaughterhouse told me that he was going to bring me the horns. And then another one to our son, who knew where they were coming from, who was picked up at the Bayonne slaughterhouse by one of Ibardin’s sales associates and who was going to bring them to me. And that's how I started.

You sold them out, didn't you?

I made two sides once for England. And also for Argentina. And another time for Colombia.

Are the Alboks all different?

Yeah, but they're all from the same gang. Sounds like it. The branch usually has a difference, some wider, and others narrower, but it could be said that they are all similar. It’s made in Vitoria-Gasteiz today, and I think that doesn’t have the full notes, and it’s also made in plastic. But he's the only one who's doing sidekicks today, and he's doing a lot.

When did you stop playing?

I don’t know, I played in that homage to León Bilbao less than ten years ago, and I also attended the Day of the Deputies of Hernani about three years ago. I played a couple of pieces or so, and I also listen to all the neighbors there, but I don’t have the attention anymore to be listening so much, and I don’t listen to young people.

Do you have to work a lot of breath to hit the side?

Oh, no, no, no. Of course, if you smoke a lot it is not good, the bellows fill up, but this also depends on the tool. There are often sides that require almost no blowing force, others cost more to play.

If you want to play a piece...

But if I start with replacement molars, the molars will come out! Sometimes that’s also the case with dultzaina da.Gogoratzen when we went to San Sebastian with a dultzainero who, before he hit her, disguised his teeth. And I, too, when I hit Hernanin, discreetly but I took off my teeth. Not as a kid, because as a kid, the teeth are fine!