René Canjura, name calling.

Yes, “Mario”, by war name. That's how we all got involved in that madness called war.

Did you have any charges?

I said I was a fighter. I was in charge, but I didn't become a commander, for example.

You used the word insanity.

Yeah, I think all wars are crazy. There is nothing to justify the war.

I'm reading Ryszard Kapuscinski from time to time. He says that war is in itself a sign of the weakness that exists in man and in society. That we all lose in the war. Which is the opposite of all wars. In fact, except for the war of defense.

Yeah, that's right. You could try to find an explanation, but I define war as madness. In fact, countless injustices are committed in the war, wherever they come from. For example, in El Salvador, we said: “It’s the confiscation we make in the name of the revolution.” But if anyone else did, it was a “robbery.” Where's the difference? In our vision of ideological-political conception, “murders” were committed. Do it for others, and “crime.” Tell me where the difference is. That's why I say that war is, in fact, insane. I fought in El Salvador for twelve years during the war and I truly believe that there should never have been a war. The war in Iraq, for example, must be stopped. When I heard about the process that started here, I said: “Welcome to any attempt to stop this war.” And keep in mind that the war here is not as harsh as the one that took place in our country, but if it is possible to prevent anyone from taking a gun, prevent it. That's priceless. Because of that Barajas! Two Latin Americans dead. And what did they have to do with the war here? This is insane!

In your case, the madness that lasted twelve years, 85,000 deaths...

There's nothing to justify so many deaths. Many times we have to look at the orchards of our minds because of conflicts and that they are not. But why not try to understand each other?

You participated in this madness...

The twelve years. And if I were asked today, “Would you do it again?”, I would reply: “It’s a lot once. That’s enough of that.” That’s why I was happy when I found out that they had started the process here. I hope that the more or less clear politicians here take the process to their head. I don't belong here and I don't know much, but it's unthinkable that anyone could win a fight like this with guns.

With the objective of the solution, what is the role of the pedestrian?

The pedestrian is a secondary actor. He's got nothing to do. In any case, it may happen between the two parties and come out to the detriment. Otherwise, I have not seen crowds proclaiming that they must take up arms. On the contrary, I have seen a democracy, with all its good and bad, that is making its way.

I remember what the mother of a Basque prisoner said to me: “Democracy does not necessarily mean justice.”

And, I'm sure you're quite right. But this imperfect democracy is better than war. You and I may not agree, but how are we going to start discussing differences of opinion with guns? That's what the 12-year war taught me, what I've learned. Some people will say that I am crazy, or as they say in El Salvador, “it has become right for us.”

Did they tell you this, that you've become right-handed?

Oh, yes, of course. Even if the CIA pays the bills. These sayings also come from the impossibility of studying new times. It is useless to deny that we live in a globalized world. We know of no other alternative. What needs to be built? It could be. But in the meantime, how to live in this global world without the differences being so great? A few rich, and thousands of people sweating about where to put their daily bread.

Those who own the media say that El Salvador is doing well. They're talking about the economy, apparently.

“El Salvador is going well.” The macro-economy is on par with the black eagle, upstairs. But go down to scary places, as we say...

“To places that are scary”...

Yes, to places where poverty is alive. I’ll tell you: the other day we went to do some tests in a place like this, because we wanted to collect houses. We went and met four youngsters, placed around an antosine. They had a tortilla, made of corn, dipping a bowl of peanuts and eating. They didn't eat peanuts, just sprinkle the cake! What future do these young people have? They'll say macroeconomics later! We have people there who live on less than a dollar a day. A lot of people don't even have that dollar. So they will come to me in vain chanting macroeconomics when people live worse than in poverty. Of course, go to the Gran Vía in San Salvador and its buildings and! The elegant ones, of course! What a wonderful thing! But, it's scary and it's scary to look at the back. El Salvador is a country of contrasts.

Social differences seem to be enormous...

What I'm saying: “There is no reason for war,” and others say: “And how to correct the situation?”

No reason to fight, no reason to fight.

Oh, yeah, yeah. The social struggle. For a living wage, for example. There, the minimum wage is $150. But go shopping and the basic basket costs you 500.

And how do you feel about coming to the Basque Country, Vitoria-Gasteiz in this case, and seeing the richness here?

It gives me joy to see this country: it has worked, it has made investments, it has had to live another world. It gives me a kind of positive envy. I wish the students of our country had all the opportunities that the students here have. I talked to a teacher here the other day. He knows the language of the deaf. I told him how a brigadier came to our village two years ago and gathered twenty-five gormudos at school! I didn't know any of that. Yes, I knew such and such deaf people, because they are known in the village and they are mocked and mocked by everyone, because they give them evil names... but they are smarter than the lights. If they talk, it's over! They're so smart, actually! That brigadier did the job, but then? The central government does not have a program to correct the birth defects, or those that follow. - So what? And even when Zapatero held his last rally for the municipal elections, there was a woman working as an interpreter for the deaf. This is another world.

You just told the truth. On the one hand, you say that we live in a globalized world. On the other hand, that this is another world. Isn’t macroeconomics globalizing through the secondary cession of social equality?

Social equality is the aspect we need to work on. That's where the notch is. Rich countries are protesting. The United States, for example, has objected to us, saying that there are two and a half million Salvadorans working there. He makes raids. People are hiding. The Salvadoran worker in the United States is not hired directly by the gringo, but is subcontracted by the Salvadoran who partially legalized his situation. The gringo paid him little, while the Salvadoran who subcontracted him paid much worse. If the rich countries do not start a fund to create jobs, there will always be migrants. When I arrived in Spain, I met twenty-five Salvadorans at the airport and not tourists. I'm convinced they came to stay. The United States has received a frightening barrier. If strong countries behave like this, where does this world go?

What does El Salvador have to do to be punished like that? Twelve years of war, 85,000 dead, daily bread massacre, the assasination of Monsignor Romero in the church, the extermination of Ellacuria and others... What did the United States have to perpetuate El Salvador in flames and flames?

Before, the Cold War was the excuse. USSR of one, USA of the other. They considered El Salvador to be the backyard of their homes and were not willing to accept any movement that wanted to change the status quo. As a result, they financed death squads, assimilated Monsignor Romero... and what did Romero do to be assimilated? He preached to love one’s neighbor, pointed out differences, was the voice of those who had no voice... That’s why he was killed. They say they were responsible for the guerrillas because of the murder of the Jesuits! They were assaulted in cold blood. And, in addition to being assaulted, they wanted to accuse the guerrillas! This is like “smart” bombs. They throw it away and I don't know how many kids it kills. What a bomb and what an intelligence that is! If you want to justify it, find a reason, but don't think we're stupid. The United States is said to have invested five million dollars every day in the war in El Salvador. If only they had invested in the infrastructure they had better! If the rich countries come together, if they agree to agreements, but do not comply, and do not enforce them against El Salvador and many other peoples. And, for me, this is the only form of intervention that I would accept, an intervention that benefits those who have nothing, and not to make them put themselves in charge “to throw away”. I mean, a military boot.

In 1931 the coups d’état in El Salvador followed each other.

The other day I was asked at a school: “Do you have another language?” “Yes, the Nahua language, but it disappeared after the 1932 massacre.” Thirty, fifty thousand indigenous people were assaulted at that time. Many others hid themselves so that they could not be assaulted. Hide the Indians, lose the language. It is estimated that one hundred, one hundred and fifty species of animals are lost each year. What do you do to stop it? The whale is on the brink of extinction, and the strong are still arguing without taking urgent action. But what are we? What's this supposed to be? We don't seem to have any historical memory. In our country, El Salvador, war is not an old issue and the same means of repression continue to be applied before the war.

I wonder if I could.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Assaults, kidnappings... Today the excuses are different, but with the head of the former neck. As if twelve years of war had not been enough!

Party ARENA (Republican Nationalist Alliance), in power since ’89... No way to reverse the situation?

Maybe if left-wing politicians were smarter. But there is no appearance.

“If left-wing politicians were smarter.” It's about them. Where are you?
I'm from the left, but I'm not in any of the major parties. I was expelled. I belonged to the FLMN (Frente Farabundo Martí para la Liberación Nacional) but in the last elections I presented myself under a different flag. We formed a party called the FDR (Revolutionary Democratic Front). In memory, the FDR was the political arm of the FLMN. One was shooting, the other was looking for solidarity, raising money. To put it bluntly, I used to raise money to buy guns and kill each other, because when you surround the guns, it's for that, to kill people.

I remember a meeting from a long time ago. It was in a village here in Lekeitio, where representatives of many villages were the speakers. Among them, the Sandinista Front, when in Nicaragua the dictator Somoza still ruled. He asked for money, without a detour, to buy weapons.

That's how it's been. Maybe it was worth it back then. There was war, great differences... Today it is something else: why not surround the money for peace? I mean, that means overcoming poverty, education, health... if you want, I could be very romantic. That’s what I was once accused of being “romantic.” But that romance is worth it.

“Romantic,” then.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Poverty, education, health, housing... “Romanticism”. What I saw in Japan: after the earthquake of seven degrees, how much destruction? A window collapsed from top to bottom. In El Salvador, the consequence would be a disaster: two, five or ten thousand homes would fall. Why, if the force of the earthquake is the same? You don’t have to be a researcher to find out what’s wrong there.