Which was the message you had for the humanitarian Peace Conference celebrated in Paris on June11th?

Mikel ALBISU: EPPK’s message was brought to the conference by Gabi Mouesca so in that sense it wasn’t a void in the conference even though the physical presence of the collective would have contributed significantly to it. On the one hand It would have shown the French government’s willingness for change. The acceptance of our presence would have been interpreted as a gesture in the direction of conflict resolution. Sadly the French government has a different approach. The prison policies, police operations and prison sentences applied against us talk by themselves.

Marixol IPARRAGIRRE: On the other hand, our presence as spokespersons would have facilitated to inform the ones in the conference about the firm commitment of the Collective with the resolution of the conflict. Equally we would have had the possibility of collecting personal opinions and approaches of different agents and to translate them later to the rest of the Collective.

What’s your assessment regarding the conference?

M.I.: Our assessment is a very positive one. The celebration of the conference itself represents a great success. The demand towards the French government to become implicated in the resolution of the conflict and the rest of the statements are on the right direction.

Is it casual that lately the most significant steps in relation with the resolution of the conflict have occurred in the North of the Basque Country and in France?

M.A.: The political class and the people from the North of the Basque Country rightly are being generous and having a positive attitude regarding the actual political situation in the Basque Country. All the same the French government insists in following the line of the Spanish government without adapting itself to the actual reality.

As a fact your demands to be repatriated as close as possible to the Basque Country have been denied in France as well as in Spain. What’s happening with this issue? Which steps have you got on mind in order to unlock the situation?

M.I.: Unlike in Spain we haven´t receive yet a final answer from France. After a year, now we have been told to specify our demand. The issue is that apart from the small prison of Baiona there is no any other French prison in the Basque Country and therefore we are asking to be transfer to the closest prison from the Basque Country, which is located in Mont de Marsan.

M.A.: At the moment we are experiencing a clash between two logics. The Basque Country is involved in the logic of resolving the conflict, the logic of “winner-winner”, even if there are certain difficulties on this road due to the partisan attitude of some political parties. Spain and France on the contrary are on the logic of perpetuating the conflict, the “winner-loser” logic. As a consequence the Collective is facing great difficulties in order to fix a line because the Estates are forcing us towards a dynamic of response while the conflict resolution process in the Basque Country demands other initiatives. We have very clear that the initiatives of the Basque Political Prisoners need the support and the collaboration of the people, and conversely, the outside initiatives need the presence and participation of the prisoners.

Meanwhile French judges have denied all the latest demands for conditional release.

M.I.: The resolutions and arguments of the French judges and prosecutors are outrageous. They use the same arguments than the Spanish right wing to deny the conditional release. They act as servants of the Spanish State.

Is an amnesty possible in the current scenario?

M.I.: For us an amnesty is to put an end to the reasons that brought us to prison. That’s the way to avoid having Basque political prisoners or refugees. To offer an amnesty is up to the States that have the Basque Country under domination. Since October 2011 the Basque Country has entered into a new era. It is obvious that the Spanish State doesn’t feel comfortable with the new scenario created after ETA’s decision to end with the armed struggle, the economic crisis and the process of independence of Catalonia. Incapable of reacting to these events the State decided to maintain the Status Quo. There would have to be a change in the State for an amnesty to happen but as mentioned earlier, an amnesty doesn’t refer to the release of those who are in prison. That already happened at the end of the dictatorship. We have to go step by step, firstly agglutinating the support of the social majority of the Basque Country against the policy of banishment and scattering.

Do you consider the proposal called Hitzeman presented by the Basque Government in relation with the prisoner’s issue a step forward?

M.I.: The Collective stated that within the proposals made by the Basque Government they were common views and points of agreement with the rest of agents that wish to resolve the prisoner’s issue. Nevertheless in our opinion, and even before reaching an agreement, there are initiatives that can be taken on without trying to humiliate those of us in captivity. The Spanish Government shows a firm intention to continue violating the rights of Basque citizens and some continue collaborating with them and showing a meek attitude towards them.

Are collectively managed individual releases a solution?

M.I.: The willingness for the resolution is the solution. The Collective of Basque Political Prisoners (EPPK) has taken steps and shown its honesty to take the necessary ones if that helps on the resolution of the conflict. Like it happened in other processes in our country the releases will have to be progressive and within a reasonable period of time. We have already accepted to walk that road under the umbrella of the law. The importance of this step is not valued as it should be. The responsibility that brought us to prison is not personal, it is a collective one even if the French and Spanish States have individualized them in order to punish us.

How can be previewed a release within the law if the States don’t comply their law?

M.A.: It has to be clarified that with the current laws of France and Spain we will not be released. The same laws that were stiffed and perverted at the heat of the conflict need to be abolished. We are experiencing the contrary. One side has stopped its attacks while the intensity of the institutionalized hate and revenge observed in the courts continues to be unbelievable.

The Spanish High Court has decided not to compute the years spent in French prisons with the ones to be spent in Spanish prisons. At the same time, the same high court has delivered that a statement made in police barracks is not enough to condemn someone. What political lecture do you make about it?

It is another evidence of what we are saying. Instead of using the European law to take steps in the resolution of the conflict Spain prefers to do the impossible to keep the militants for as long as possible in prison. They don’t care if within a period of time they are told that they were wrong. On the other hand the latest resolutions from the European courts regarding cases of torture not been investigated have had their effect. It is a step forward but not enough. How many Basque citizens have been in prison and they are still in due to these types of evidence? The sessions of torture continued even in front of the judges due to the torturers demand to ratify the statements in front of the judge.

Currently the issue of prisoners is not a priority. Is this worrying? Was there more talking done before about the conflict than currently about the resolution of it?

M.A.: It’s done on purpose. In other conflicts which we take as a reference, South Africa and Ireland for example, we observe that the fighters imprisoned played a major role in the process of resolution. Both South Africa’s Apartheid State and the British Government took on courageous steps concerning this issue. This is one of the reasons for which there are no further steps regarding the resolution of the conflict in the Basque Country. The prisoner’s agenda has been taken off the resolution of the conflict and moved into the agenda of deepening on the conflict. the Abertzale Left and the sovereignist forces were the ones that opened the path for the resolution of the conflict. The States are not interested on deepening that path and some forces that at the beginning were ready to get involved have now taken a step back. Probably they concern is that ones the conflict is resolved and ones the Basque county recovers its fundamental rights then, they will lose the benefits of maintaining the conflict alive.

Are they trying to make you become a burden for the Abertzale Left?

M.A.: It seems that the forces against the resolution of the conflict are trying to tie up to the ankles of the Abertzale Left two specific burdens: ETA’s disarmament and the issue of prisoners. They are using these two issues as an excuse not to deepen into the resolution. In order to resolve this issue it is essential the implication of the States. These issues can’t be resolve with unilateral initiatives. They are also using as an excuse the issue of the victims which is another consequence of the conflict.

ATA (Amnisty and Freedom), the electoral results... it seems that within the Abertzale Left the waters come troubled. What’s your opinion?

M.I.: We are worried about it even though we lack of knowledge regarding these issues. We are more than ever captives of the States. Our principal source of information is the Basque journals which are given to us with delay. That’s the principal source of information that we have to counter the manipulated information offered by the French and Spanish media. Our visits are guarded, our cells registered...Our friends and family, the solicitors, the doctors looking after our health, the whole of them are under the sight of the States. From our point of view that’s a clear reference of how important the prisoner’s issue is. When the conflict was at its high the principal contribution of the Collective was to hold its position and they did so in very rough times. In these new times we need to change our guidelines so valuable for resistance, so that we make our contribution to the process.

M.A.: There is an especial worry everywhere regarding the prisoner’s issue. We worry about the tendency to try to manipulate the Collective. Every side is coming to us willing to get its grain. We need to collect the existing forces instead of scattering them. We need the unity of those who are ready to support the prisoners too because all forces will be necessary. The Collective needs mediators to facilitate the contact with the Basque society. Each must become a mediator.

Are all prisoners equal?

M.A.: All prisoners are equal in the same way that there is not one single prisoner equal to another one. All members of the Collective are equal regardless of the level of compromise each took. We are all here due to our compromise towards the Basque Country. The same that we have to state clearly that everything is not ETA, we also have to say that all members of the Collective fight for the same objective.

If you are fighting for political reasons how is it that for more and more agents you have become “prisoners” instead of “political prisoners”? What does the denial of the status of political prisoners mean?

M.I.: We are aware that there is a tendency to forget our status of political prisoners but we don’t know the reasons hiding behind. We don’t lose our political nature because certain retire the word political from our surname. Nevertheless it would be worrying if someone would make a use of it with the intention mentioned by you. As I said, the comrades of EPPK are in prison for different reasons. For us the correct words to refer to us are the ones that have been used until now. In any case neither the States nor the rest of the prisoners or guards question our political nature.

The prisoners of other conflicts have also been considered victims but that status has been denied to you. Are you victims?

M.I: No we are not victims. As I said before we are political militants. This doesn’t mean that we or the ones closest to us haven’t suffered due to the conflict. Much of us have suffered torture, family members have died because of the policy of scattering... we have spent years away from our country and natural surrounding without the possibility of having a normal life with our people.

What have you got to say to ETA’s victims?

M.A.: It is a painful issue. We all have suffered during the conflict. One of the consequences of the resolution of the conflict must be to put an end to the victims generated because of the armed confrontation. The fact that ETA ended forever the armed struggle against the Spanish State has brought peacefulness to those that before were objectives, but there hasn’t been the corresponding response from the French and Spanish side yet.

M.I.: Is not the function of EPPK to do statements related to the victims of the conflict. First, the Collective hasn’t inflicted any harm to anyone. Secondly, like stated Pablo Gorostiaga a member of our Collective until not long ago, to whom must he go to ask for forgiveness? To whom must go Salutregi, the director of the journal Egin asking for forgiveness? These are not individual cases. Beside they hide that EPPK published a statement on the 28th of December 2013 stating that: “We acknowledge the multiple sided pain and harm generated because of the conflict.” It has to be taken into account that the imprisoned militants are hostages of the States. To ask us to show our repentance or forgiveness because of our acts in order to obtain our freedom is an act against a real resolution. The pain suffered in both sides and the deepness of it is an issue to be taken very seriously. It needs to be taken away from the prisoners issue and dealt with it in the society.

What is your opinion about the face to face encounters and events in which victims have participated?

M.I.: It is necessary that Basque society faces what happened. The fact that at this stage we are still recovering the bodies of those killed in 1936 shows that the wounds need to be cured. They are taking part in different type of meetings, they are helpful and we believe on their good will. However the States continue to inflict suffering. The encounters between the victims of the conflict will be positive for as long as they help in the resolution of the conflict.

Have you got the feeling that within the process of resolution your identity and background are being denied?

M.A.: That’s the aim of the Spanish State. They want the Abertzale Left to refuse of its past. They search to stop further advancement and to reduce the process into a winner-loser lecture. Certain agents that during the years have put obstacles and excuses not to get involved in the resolution agree with that lecture too. Beside, the Abertzale Left hasn’t got the right of voicing its opinion about the past freely without facing reprisals.

Do you fear forgetfulness?

M.I.: Not even for an instant.

How can be society activated when the actual reality doesn’t help at all?

M.A.: There is no magic formula. With compromise, becoming a militant, talking to the people, making reflections...by adapting ourselves to the conditions of this society which is always changing, with permanent renovation. A process of liberation to be something has to be a process of creativity because its aim is to transform society and to flip that that is possible.

How far can unilaterality go? Do you think that people is aware of the implications it has for you?

M.A.: Unilaterality can go as far as the prison door. From there on we can’t go. Is society that must unlock the door. Our objective is not to get out from prison, our objective is to continue developing our militant work with our means and behaviour adapted to the new period.

M.I.: The states have always thought that we are the weakest link and that by breaking us they will also break the Abertzale Left. Thus they would also end with the process of liberation in the Basque Country. For many years we have show them how wrong they are because for many years our main line has been to resist. In this new scenario we are ready to resist as well as to contribute to the process in a positive way.

Meanwhile the Audiencia Nacional (special court ) to call the families of the Basque Political Prisoners to testify?

M.I.: It is a measure to harm them. It also shows their weakness because it punishes the families. Firsly they were called to the police barracks of Intxaurrondo and La Salve, to the same ones in which lots of us and thousands of citizens have been tortured. And now they have been called to the tribunal from which we were sent to prison from allegations obtained under torture. Is it permissible to let them play in that way with our families and friends? Who is going to protect them? We should ask to ourselves when this policy of punishment and provocation will have an end. It is time to define the when’s and who’s to put an end to this situation.

Pro-Spanish political parties and the PNV argue once and again that EPPK doesn’t allow the prisoners to walk their own road and that it is the one that keeps the prisoners in.

M.A.: 26 years ago the PNV and PSOE used a similar excuse to apply the policy of scattering and banishment. After having had the time to observe for so long its inefficiency it is about time to walk this road the other way around. All comrades must be taken to a single prison situated in the Basque Country, we must be allowed to have contact with social and political agents and they must permit us to debate so that we can take decisions.

Looking to the future what steps are you ready to take? Which ones are your red lines?

M.I: We are militants. We became militants to fight for the national and social liberation of our country and we have been ready to take the necessary measures to achieve this objective. The political situation has changed and we try to adapt to the new situation even with our current conditions. We need help to walk this road. The States keeps us deported and scattered to prevent us from having contact with the reality of the Basque Country, to prevent us from discussing and deciding the steps that need to be taken in the current situation. They are also trying to create misunderstandings and splits among us.

M.A.: Our red lines are to give the back to the fight for which we became engaged, as well as to repent and to become informers.